abortion/obama dialogue round two:

Hey Marie,

I appreciate you sharing you views. Although I would like to share with you a concern I see in what your writing. You say Obama "calls" himself a Christian, and say it with a tone that suggests that you think he really isn't. This concerns me very much, that because you find through scripture that one particular view is wrong, any person who believes this is not a Christian. I hope you would agree with me if I said many great people who were spiritual leaders, or any kind of leaders that said they were Christians, probably didn't act perfectly according to one, or any persons personal expectations of Christians. The only person who ever was perfect was Christ, not even (forgive me this may sound condescending but it isn't) you or me or Billy Graham or John Piper or whoever else we think is great or not great. All these people "call" themselves Christians. You and I "call" ourselves Christians. Frankly, I think the only person who can judge that is God. I don't believe it is our place to even begin to suggest judging someone, mainly because I know someone could easily look at my life and find something (or many things for most of us if were honest) that does not align with scripture or is wrong. I do not support abortion, and my political views regarding it may differ from yours but frankly thats not really important to me. What is important to me is that we do not assume or judge anyone based on vague information of how they voted once and take that to a level of saying they aren't a Christian. I've read Obama's autobiography and done alot of research on him, and I think if you looked you would find that he does not support the act of abortion but has political beliefs that make it important for him to support peoples rights. You may not a agree with that and thats ok. What I do believe is that it's not ok is to say or suggest that someone is not Christian when they say they are, I don't not think it's our place or right to make this judgement. We both "call" ourselves Christians, and you and I both fall short of that name and fall short of what God expects of us. I certainly hope that no one takes my imperfections as a believer and says I don't believe what I know in my heart I do. Especially if that person has no idea who I really am or what my heart is. I'd love to talk about this stuff more with you if you wanted to sometime.

me, again:

Hey! I realllly appreciate your reply. Thank you for sharing your concerns (and I'm not trying to patronize you--I am serious! :)

I have been writing responses to my note for the last three hours, so I will just give you a brief response for now (actually, I am going to take a little section out of the reply I sent to Alison). I would love to talk to you more about this, because you are absolutely right about us all being depraved, fallen sinners who fall desperately short of doing the will of God, even after we are saved. Nothing that I say or believe matters one bit--all that matters is the truth, which is the written in the Word of God. It is what I live by, and if I am failing to represent Christ in a Biblical manner, I expect other Christians to call me on it. I am but a slave of Christ.

Here is part of what I sent to Friend A:

"As for Obama--I maybe should have answered this first-- yes, I am "judging" him, not his salvation (which is obviously not for me to judge) but rather, his works. If we claim to be Christians, then we are representing the God of the universe and His Word, so if our actions (political or not) are not in line with the teachings of the Bible, it is the responsibility of other Christians to call us on it. Anyone can hear the Words of God and say they are a Christian, but only those who do his will actually KNOW him (see James 1:22, Romans 2:13). Our primary motive in everything we do should be the glorification of God (Isaiah 43:7). If we are not standing up for the rights of the unborn, we are telling the world that God is ok with abortion. And we can both agree that he certainly is not. So in politics and in everything else, we should be upholding the clear Will of God on essential issues, such as protecting human life. And he is not. This issue is so far beyond personal belief--it doesn't matter what I think. God's creations are being completely and needlessly destroyed. One dead, one wounded."

So there you have it. Let me know if that makes sense.

and back again:

May 22 at 5:02pm

Marie,

I definetly agree with all of that. It is our actions that matter. Faith without works is dead. I think we have a different idea of what works are in this particular sitation though. I've been praying and reading about this issue alot and I've come to feel very convicted about what I am doing FOR people in these situations instead of being against something and subsequently being against these people. I have no idea what it would be like to be a woman living in a very poor area, working a low wage job with not much of a way out and finding out you now had a child to raise. I can't say that I would be very excited about it. Now I don't think that it is an excuse for abortion but I do think that alot of women are in this situation. This is why I support Barack Obama. He has said publicly that he does not support the action of abortion and does not want to see more happen. He wrote a whole chapter in his book about how he feels that creating more opportunities and resources and funds for these women in these situations would greatly reduce the number of women who felt that abortion is the only option.

Now, we could talk about preventative measures and that is something that could be improved in our culture but lets face it, people are gonna have sex and because of that people will get pregnant. So with that said, I want to support programs and funds and legislators that want to DO things that will help women in these situations. I want to see the church DO more for single mothers in helping them, financially, or in any other way that they need and have that be there way of helping prevent abortions, instead of protesting outside abortion clinics. I see small steps toward action like this, in people like Barack Obama. The problem I see is that the same legislators who want abortion to be illegal, also want to get rid of welfare in any form, throw out social security, and lower taxes and cut funding to state and federal healthcare programs. They want it made illegal but they do not offer any other options for the people in these situations. I know that there is the option of adoption, but frankly, as a man, I cannot pretend to know what it would be like give up a child I gave birth to so I cannot expect that to be the easy solution for everybody. I also think that if you look at history, making something illegal does not stop it from happening, and frankly in this situation if you look at the history of our country when abortion was illegal or of countries where it is illegal, you hear horror stories of mothers and their children dying awful painful deaths because of how the abortion is performed. I couldn't tell you exactly what kind of things we could do for these women to help prevent abortion but something is better than nothing. Maybe the state or federal government could give tax incentives of some sort when a mother gives a baby up for adoption. It might sound weird but frankly, I'd be willing to pay taxes for something that help reduce the number of abortions, that might be something that would work, maybe not but I don't believe that making it illegal is the right step to reducing it.

Regardless of all that I guess my point is that I have been convicted lately that ACTION is the things I DO for these people. If I can show them Christ's love in ANY way, whether it be financially or anything else, this will be the way we stop abortion. We show love and care and compassion for the women in these situations and show them that we want to provide as many ways as we can to help them so they don't have to do something so awful. I don't believe it is God's will to say to a woman " What your about to do is a sin in God's eyes!!" and do nothing to help them. I do believe it is God's will for us to say something like " God loves you and that child too much for you to do this. That's why we're gonna help you get through it however we can so you don't have to." I sometimes wonder if Jesus had said to the prostitute, "What you do is sinful, if you don't change I will never love you" Would she have changed at all and gotten up and followed Jesus? But instead Jesus condemned those who were condemning her and told her that he did not judge her and showed her love and her life was changed forever. If i can translate that to the way I see and treat women who want to get abortions maybe someone that I show that love will not make that decision and maybe if alot of people do this, we could make a great impact, not only stopping abortions, but spreading the love or Christ.

the end